Keith Rabois and Mike Shebat on Creating an Olympian Mindset to Work Ethic

I think first of all, in technology, the opportunity cost in your twenties is very high. If you look at a lot of people who’ve been most successful, the foundations of their career are in their twenties. Most of the best people I’ve ever worked with in my career were actually interns. I think first time founders are actually better. Every company that’s successful is like a cult, and every cult that works is unique. We at Founders Fund have pretty much put a line in the sand that we won’t invest in remote companies. It’s very obvious why it doesn’t work.

I am so excited for this show today. As you heard in that intro, this episode has more bangers than a Taylor Swift concert. Joining us in the hot seat today is Keith Rabois, general partner at Founders Fund, one of the best venture firms of the last decade. And then joining him is one of his latest investments, Mike Shebat, founder and CEO at Traba. It’s an incredible discussion. I really like to innovate on formats. So obviously, we do roundtables. I’d love to hear your thoughts on this style of show. You can let me know on Twitter at Harry Stebbings, but it is incredible. So let me know what you think and would love to hear your thoughts. But before we move into the show’s day, did you know that every 20 VC episode you listen to is recorded with Riverside? Riverside is insanely good. Like, I would pay a thousand dollars per month for Riverside. It’s that good. Why? Well, first off ease. Your guests do not need an account. One click and they’re in the recording room with you. It is fantastic especially for high profile guests. Second, they record your video and audio track separately and in the background. So they’re not only higher quality, but the guest does not need to record their end and then send after which is a total nightmare. But for me, honestly, what I love so much is how much thought they put into the product. Like, when the internet quality is low, they will disable the video for the cool. But for the recording, it works seamlessly. It records perfectly. It’s so thoughtfully done and it makes such a difference. Use my coupon code 20VC, that’s 20 v C, and get a 15% discount. It is a tool I could not run my business without. Again, you can check it out at riverside.fm and use my code 20, that’s two zero v c. And speaking of game changers for businesses, as a VC, come across many businesses that have potential and offer a great product or service, but they run into issues. And that’s why I love the team at Arising Ventures. They’re a holding company that acquires tech startups that are facing setbacks and helps get them back on track success. They’ve helped companies like Up Council, which they took from burning $1,000,000 a month and shrinking to profitable and growing Jive where they launched a shutdown company and went from naught to 1,000,000 ARR in just five months. They want to reveal your great business underneath the broken incentives. Whether it’s a broken cap table, cofounder disputes, underwater common stock, the team behind Arising Ventures are career long tech founders, which is so important. They’re not bankers, and they know even the greatest businesses have tough times. Learn how Arising Ventures can be the one to help give your company new life by visiting arisingventures.com/20vc. Go to arisingventures.com/20vc. And finally, Secure Frame is the leading all in one platform for automated security and privacy compliance. Secure Frame simplifies and streamlines the process of getting and staying compliant to the most rigorous global privacy and security standards. Secure Frame’s industry leading compliance automation platform paired with their in house compliance experts and former auditors helps you get audit ready in weeks, not months, so you can close more deals faster. Secure Frame uses over a 150 integrations, built in security training, vendor and risk management, and more to make compliance uncomplicated. Secure Frame makes it fast and easy to achieve and maintain compliance, so you can focus on serving your customers. Automate your security and privacy compliance with Secure Frame. Schedule a demo today at secureframe.com. You have now arrived at your destination. I am excited for this. My word. I mean, I saw this email where you outlined the culture at Traba before and I thought this was gonna be a really special show. So first off, I wanna say thank you both for coming. Now second, I wanna start with some intros. Let’s start with you, Keith. For those that don’t know, which I think at this point is probably no one, who are you and what do you do?

So I’m primarily a general partner at Founders Fund. I’ve been at VC for about ten years after being a fairly entrepreneurial executive at companies like PayPal, LinkedIn, Square, co founded a company called Opendoor as a side project, also CEO of a 130 person company based in Miami.

Love that side project. Mike, same for you. What do you do? What does the company do? And then additional one there, but how did you get to know Keith and what’s the relationship?

Yeah. So I’m Mike. I’m the CEO of a company called Traba, and we’re a labor marketplace that connects workers with open shifts in the light industrial industry. And our mission is to empower both businesses and workers to reach their full productivity and potential. So what that looks like at scale is the AWS of labor across the global supply chain. Things are moving faster. People are finding the right jobs at the right time. They’re upscaling, and everything is just getting better around the world in the global economy.

I did actually have, like, quite a neatly defined schedule, and then you sent over the culture doc, and I just thought, oh, this is gonna be so much better if we have an honest conversation. So can you talk to me about the culture doc that you sent over to me, and start with what you in your approach, Mike. And Keith, I’d love for you to chime in with lessons that you have, observations that you have from seeing this from the slightly afar.

Yeah. So when my co founder, Akshay, and I started the company, we were thinking big. Just like how I mentioned to you, we plan on having a global impact building a once in a generation company. And when you go back and you look at any of those once in a generation companies, Microsoft, Amazon, Apple, it was a group of people that were committed, and they were working really hard doing something that is very, very hard to make work. So our first value, dream big, that correlates very closely to our second value, which is Olympian’s work ethic. We were just like, what we’re gonna do is we’re gonna work really hard together towards a common goal. We only hire and promote people that are bought into that mission.

Can you expand on that? What does the Olympian’s work ethic mean in terms of expectations in office, in hours, in attitude? What does that mean?

Yeah. So it’s a mindset. If you were to be in high school and telling everybody around you, I wanna go to the Olympics, there is a certain commitment with that. You’re waking up early. You’re going to practice. You’re showing up with other people that are also trying to vie to go to the Olympics together. So what it means in practice at Traba is we’re all committed to at least twelve hour days, Monday through Thursday. Friday, we’re working late, but people do tend to go out on on Friday night. But it’s an in office culture just like how you could technically become an amazing baseball player by hitting balls in the batting cage alone. But the real magic happens is when you’re practicing with the other teammates to prepare for the big game.

Keith, I have to turn to you here. You’ve backed. Astonishing. You’ve either founded or invested, and I heard this the other day, like a unicorn a year for something like twenty years. But my question to you is, when you look back at those that you have founded or invested in with similar trajectories, was this Olympian work ethic the same across all of them? Like, is this anything new?

I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily all of them universally, but more than 80%. It’s a very common characteristic of successful companies. I actually feel it’s a successful or I I observed that successful characteristic of almost anybody successful in any field, effort and input is what dictates results. I think there’s never been a substitute for, you know, effort and dedication to your craft if you wanna be top 1% in any field. And if you interview people in athletics, as Mike pointed out, will it be in work ethic? You interview people in music that succeed. If you interview people in technology that have been successful, it’s always the people that work the hardest that have the most opportunities. And if you have the most opportunities, you tend to have the opportunity to thrive. This is kind of basically how every technology company was built for decades. Only heroic people really who had almost irrational ambition entered the field of starting a company with their friends. Like, was basically borderline irrational to say I’m gonna reinvent the world and society or an industry from scratch with my best friend from college. And the only people who did that had traits that were unique and had a work ethic that was unique because that’s how you shift the probabilities from literally zero to something that approaches, you know, a couple digit percentage points. You know, when we worked at PayPal, I actually joke with Mike all the time that he’s actually top one basis point in work ethic, and I was probably only top 10 basis points, but my absolute number of work hours is probably higher because the standards were so much higher. At PayPal, like, the idea of, like, having a day off was, like, inconceivable, literally inconceivable. Like, there was three people out of 254 people in the company that when we sold the company that could live in San Francisco because the company was based in Palo Alto. There was no extra time to commute between Palo Alto and San Francisco. So it’s like an insane idea to try to live in San Francisco even though we’re all in our twenties and early thirties because you just didn’t have an extra twenty minutes to commute. And so this is how we built companies. And Mike is really refreshing because it’s kind of like the traditional way of building a company, which has been proven to work. One of the reasons why I introduced him to one of the to his board member, Samir from Khosla Ventures, is Samir was attending a board meeting with me about Openstore, and he was complaining about the new generation of entrepreneurs that, you know, none of them wanna work that hard. They’re all entitled, blah blah blah blah. I was thinking in the back of my mind, oh my god. I’ve got the perfect entrepreneur for you because Mike has none of those traits. He’s not entitled. He sweats the inputs, and he’s built a very intentional culture with his cofounder that really does replicate the best of, let’s say, PayPal or how or Apple or Amazon were actually built.

I work at seven days. We we have the funds and then the shows, and everyone says to me, and it fucks me off so much, that’s not sustainable. Not I mean, it’s good for now, Harry, but you can’t sustain it. I mean, look, we’re 2,700 shows in and nine years in, so I’m still here. But my point to you is, how do you respond? And this is to both of you, anyone who wants to take it. How do you respond to those that go, that’s not sustainable and you can’t keep doing that?

I think it’s just simply not true. Even like a traditional, say, like a normal nine to five, usually, the hardest working people, they if they do actually leave at five, they go home and they work on something else. That’s their craft. So say they wanna be the best piano player in the world. They’re playing piano when they get home. And no one’s saying, like they don’t even think about that as work. So when you’re with a group of like minded people that are working towards making the world a better place at scale and trying to build something incredible, it doesn’t feel like work.

Yeah. To amplify that, it’s momentum that matters. It’s like progress that matters. That’s what fuels you. When you know you’re getting better, when the company’s getting better, when the customers are happier, more delighted, etcetera, workers are making more money, that’s what fuels you. But if you think about the back to Olympic work ethic, like, the people who become Olympians, they don’t stop until their body basically can no longer compete with elite people. You know, if you look at the basketball players, the Michael Jordans, the Kobe Bryant’s, they’re still outworking everybody who’s 16, 15, 14, 13 with 500 to 5,000 shots a day. Notoriously, after playoff games, still taking more shots, making the staff keep up with them, waking up at 5AM for more practice. That’s what makes you successful in any field. People think DJs are these creative people that don’t do any work. Most of the successful DJs I know play, like, 300 shows a year across the world until they make it. And when they make it, they still play a 150 shows a year traveling all around the globe. So, like, there is no substitute for success. It’s like you have to decide when you wake up, what is my life about? And if it’s about transforming the world, you have to take energy from somewhere and apply it. And it becomes self fulfilling. Like, at the end of the day, you really do have this ambition to get better every day, and it doesn’t even feel like work. I used to joke with people that if you have to look at the clock in the middle of the day, you have the wrong job.

And if you even just think about most people in a high school in The US, if they’re trying to go to the best college, you just think about their schedule. They’re waking up at six, going to school, doing their classes. They may do athletics after class, and then they do their homework, and then they go to bed, and they repeat. We still at Traba, people still go to the gym. People still take care of themselves. But it’s just shifting a mindset of, like, this is going to be my craft. We’re gonna build something together. So people are showing up to work. They’re working together. They’re collaborating. They’re solving problems. They have full context because they’re in the room. They’re visiting customers. Then people do, like, go to the gym, get a get a mental reset, and then back to it with their colleagues. I feel like a lot of high performers even across corporate America have felt this where they’re like, wow. Like, I’m putting in so much effort, but 80% of the people of this company, they’re just not pulling their weight. Like, why do I have to apologize for reaching out to someone at, like, 6PM? Whereas, like, early stage startups are very hard. Most of them don’t work, so we wanna self vet and only have people that are opted in and excited about that. And it unlocks, like, a level of velocity and intensity that just doesn’t happen at most places.

And, Harry, one of the most unique things about Traba is the consistency. So Mike alluded to it, but it’s worth, like, putting a very fine point on. Everybody at Traba is up to the same standards. I’ve seen a lot of companies where the top 10% are, the top 20%, top 30, top 40, but literally everybody at Traba is as committed as everybody else, and that’s extraordinarily rare. And I think that’s why the company is succeeding.

We’re gonna dig into that in terms of the depth of talent there in that mindset. I do just have to also, we mentioned the parallels to athletes several times. There is a moment in athletes training programs, workout routines, where rest is embedded and an extra hour in the gym won’t enable them to actually be better. Is there ever a moment in work where an additional hour of input isn’t actually worth the output?

I think the right question is to ask, like, okay, for a certain number of input, what is your leverage on that time? But it’s a shift of mindset. Okay. If we’re all committed to at least sixty hours a week of work, how are we leveraging that sixty hours a week to be the most high impact on the business and moving things along even faster? So the reason why I wanted to change the mindset is because if you know that not only you, but all your colleagues are also going to be there at 8PM, you’re not even thinking about pushing it out the next day. You’re doing it that night. At scale, like, over time compounded across a lot of decisions, the whole engine, the whole company moves so much faster. To answer your question more directly, people do rest, but they also need to know that, like, they should be pushing themselves into hypertrophy, which is you’re not actually going to get bigger unless you feel like, oh, actually, now this is where it’s gonna get hard. You’re doing 20 sets of bench press. Like, you’re just doing that with very low weight. You’re not actually making a difference. It’s the same thing with work. People should be pushing themselves more and more, and that’s how you know that you’re actually moving fast enough.

Let me just, apply the athletic metaphor too. It’s not as if, like, let’s say you’re a football player. You don’t just go to the field and practice all day twenty four seven. You might study film. You might go home and spend four hours watching video of your opponent, and that makes you more successful. So your body is recovering, but your brain is training. But you’re spending every incremental moment watching that film, and that’s what leads to what looks to be, you know, this heroic interception, but it’s all based upon preparation.

I was I love that. I had this kind of spar on the show the other day, and he said, encourage people to have side projects. And I said, why? That’s ridiculous. I personally would like you to go home, and if you’re a sales rep, read about the latest sales tools, latest sales techniques, prospective clients we could be going after. You don’t have to be in the office working at 9PM, but improving what you do in the day. Like you said there about watching tapes, improving your day to day process. Do you want your people to also have side projects? Do you agree with me? Or

So you wanna hire people where it’s like, we are all committed to making a once in a generation company. This should be everyone’s top priority. That’s the type of people we wanna hire. Now people can go off and do something in their careers later having looked back and then, like, I learned so much by giving my all to that one thing.

You need to develop your comparative advantage in life. And when you identify what that is, you wanna double, triple, quadruple down on that and leverage that all day every day. I do believe that there are things you can do that are maybe closer to what Jack was thinking, which is what I’ll sometimes do is I’ll read books. Like, I have voracious appetite for reading. And the idea of reading the books is to spark ideas that I can later leverage in. So sometimes there’s different time horizons of investing in yourself. Like, I read a book, it’s probably not that practical for tomorrow. I’m not gonna come up with something from this book and send it to Mike, and he’s not gonna apply it to Traba tomorrow. But years and years of reading quality stuff does occasionally lead to an epiphany or spark or an interesting idea that other people miss, and then I can leverage that. So it’s like an investment. It just with a different time horizon.

Keith, can I be direct? You’re an investor and a founder at the same time. Is one not a side project?

No. You know, there there is some tension. On the investor side, don’t think there’s much tension. Like, I actually don’t feel like, for the most part, I’m compromising my ability to invest. So though, in theory, can meet more companies. In theory, I can meet every, you know, early stage startup, and that would probably be good. But I’d probably be tired anyway and wouldn’t be as sharp as possible if I tried to do twenty four hours of meetings with entrepreneurs every day. Where the consequence is is running a company. There are real trade offs, and Mike reminds me of this every day. It not literally reminds me just watching Mike. I am reminded of what I can be doing with the incremental time when I’m serving our boards, when I’m meeting with Founders Fund colleagues, I’m taking new pitches. And there’s a real trade off to my company that have to create alternative leverage for and find other ways of adding value to offset some of the disadvantages. So there are real, real trade offs to company building. I would not recommend that. As a VC, think it’s net very positive. There are things I remember ended up being able to remember by having it worked in my hands again that makes me more, hopefully, more useful to entrepreneurs like Mike. There are things like around recruiting. You know, there’s things around, like, actually growth funnels that when you have to do it for yourself, you remember some details that occasionally you can pass on. But I I feel distressed every day at work in the company office.

The decay rate on operating experience has never been greater. And so if you did something five years ago, pre COVID, pre OpenAI, and pre chat, it just doesn’t happen.

Terrible. Like, I I took eight years between Square and taking over, you know, CEO of Openstore, and it’s like muscle atrophy. And it took me the first year at least to get back to be decent as a CEO. I think the second year, it started coming back and the muscle memory started recovering and, you know, maybe now I’m actually doing an a minus job at least.

Mike, can I ask you, you know, we hear that culture and honestly, I think a lot of people listen and will be quite shocked and will go, well, who would sign up for that? How do people respond when you illustrate that culture? And how do you think about their response?

That’s a really good question because to be honest, I look at their eyes when I interview people. You have to correlate the hard work culture to the dreaming big, which is the reality of the matter. Like, if I’m gonna tell somebody, let’s get together and try our best to build a trillion dollar business, and then I say, that, of course, takes a lot of work, and we wanna hire people that are committed to that. I’m And gonna be honest with you that this is what the company is committed to. Look at their eyes, and if they are smiling and they say, actually, like, I already work those hours or that sounds awesome that everyone else around me will also work that work that much, That’s the right type of person. If it’s somebody that’s trying to justify or change something, you already know that they’re probably not gonna be a good fit. So we wanna find the people that actually are excited by that.

Harry, a good illustration, and Mike, you know, can amplify this, is, Mike hired a wonderful head of finance named Jessica. She actually proactively reached out to the company because she read about Traba’s culture and the dedication, the nine nine six. She had worked in Asia and had watched and observed how all the successful companies in Asia have this work ethic and culture. And when she was moving back to The United States, she only wanted to work with a company that was just dedicated to winning and being successful. So she proactively reached out to Mike, so it actually becomes a magnet for talent.

But how many people are there like that? Maybe I sit in Europe and so I see a different view, you know, with

That’s why there’s no European successful companies, as you know. I mean, like, it it’s not accidental there hasn’t been a $100,000,000,000 European company created since 1990. Miami’s great. We’ll have you here in Miami. You can move. We’ll set up a studio for you.

But but my question to you is, Mike, actually, are most people quite shocked by it and you just get used to that? And do you care? Like, you care about the people on Twitter that go, ugh.

I don’t care because in reality, if you want top of the bell curve results, so if you just think about a distribution, most people are in the middle, but you want outcomes that are on the far right, like, basically top 1% outcomes. So it’s actually better for me to be upfront that this is what we do. And like Keith mentioned, we have enough people that are tired of being around middle of the bell curve results and want to actually if they’re gonna give their all to a startup, they wanna pull every lever that makes the probability of success as high as possible. And joining a a team of like minded individuals that can withstand any challenge that comes our way, like very low ego, high work ethic, understanding that startups are difficult. So it’s actually completely fine with me if people misunderstand or don’t want to do that. The outcomes are just gonna be different.

Do you ever get people who think they want it and then join and go too much?

Yeah. We do. We actually get people that think that we’re kidding. Like, people will be like, oh, yeah. I’m gonna say the right things in the interview process. And then we have had people join, and then they’re like, oh my gosh. These people are actually working past 09:10PM, like, every night. And by the way, people are happy. It feels like we’re all in, like, a college working on a very hard project, like, that to do the next day. Like so, yes, we do. We get people that I’ve had people that have joined, said the right things in the interview process, and then we basically are like, okay. This isn’t for either of us after, like, the first week.

Yeah. The Harry, just to reinforce that, I’ve been in Mike’s office, you know, at 10PM or during weekends, and the energy at 10PM is better than 90% of companies at 2PM. Like, without fail, by the way.

We’re we’re all totally aligned. The one thing I do say is I will expect more than any other employer from you, but I will pay you more as a result. Well, I know what you’re giving up. Do you pay people more because you expect more?

Yeah. We do pay people well. There is a dynamic of being a series a startup where part of our success is to also manage our cash effectively, especially in this market. Part of what I get asked is, okay. You grew this much. This is your revenue growth rate, but how much capital did it take to do that? So it’s part of all of our collective success to also manage cash effectively. So what I would say is people do get paid well on cash. They get paid more than the average job, but the real unlock for people to unlock generational wealth is the equity. And that’s actually why it’s an interesting, like, dynamic because the more that you hire people that are too cash obsessed, the less likelihood that your equity that everyone’s equity will be actually worth a lot too. As we continue to grow and as the equity upside starts to not be as high of a multiple, it’s natural that you continue to pay higher cash. But we do pay well above market, especially on the equity side. And then with hiring the best people with the commitment, cash is is also good.

I’m intrigued. When you look at and this is for both of you. When you look at cash discussions and title discussions in the hiring process, Are there any lessons from how people respond and how that will correlate to success or lack of success in a role?

100%. So if they’re way too focused on title, it’s an immediate red flag. Part of what unlocks the greatness in a startup is people basically thinking of their career as a rock climbing wall. Like, I’m gonna go over here, solve this challenge, go over here, solve this challenge. What’s better for the overall company? A startup is a team sport. We have this tenon, which is one of our values, which is playing for the front of the jersey. So it’s not about you as an individual. It is actually about solving problems. And when the company is growing, when you’re hiring a lot of people, when you’re onboarding a lot of customers, things are starting to break because of your growth rate. You need people that are putting down the the hat of, like, this is my title and just solving whatever problem is there. It doesn’t matter what your title is, so that’s the number one red flag. People that are way too focused on cash versus the equity, I do think that’s more of a yellow flag. Like, some people have things in their life that they have to pertain to, whether it’s, like, student debt or families or things like that. But I do question if you’re joining an a series a startup, you should be thinking about the equity value unlock more so than the cash. So I don’t compete on cash with large mature companies where their equity is only gonna go up, like, at the rate of the S and P 500 or anything like that.

Does the culture scale with time? When we think about you said you’re a series a company. When you’re a series d company, does that culture look the same then, or do we regress to a mean that it sadly we have to regress to?

Well, we’re gonna try our best never to regress to a mean, but what I would say is the culture does adapt based on the risk profile that everybody takes on. So when we first started the company, we were actually in office at least six days a week, twelve hour days. We were basically up against the clock to get to a series a funding. You need that level of commitment. You need that level of being all in and dedicating everything to it, and that unlocked actually, like, an amazing series a. We have pulled that back a little bit to be more flexible as we hire different types of people, different roles that we need to fulfill. But as we become a an a thousand person company, we will modify what is the commitment together, but we will never sacrifice the high velocity, high performance culture. I do believe strongly that everyone should be joining a company more like a Olympic sports team. It’s not a family. It’s Olympic sports team. And, like, when you’re an athlete that’s not pulling your weight, you get pushed off the team.

I think you definitely do past x thousand employees see some regression to the mean, and the art is constructing some accumulating advantages, let’s say, a network effect before that happens. Because the momentum of a network effect can offset some of the slippage in, like, quality. Although that said, both Amazon and Apple were able to scale to call at least 10,000 employees without regressing. So it’s possible. I think other company culture start regressing past 500. Somewhere between 510,000, you see some decay. But if you establish the correct network effect, that can offset. I mean, there’s, you know, the Warren Buffett quote about build a business that’s, you know, so powerful that even idiots can run it. So, you know, at some point, you do wanna erect something that’s a true machine that, you know, you’re constructing the machine through human labor, effort, energy, sacrifice. And at some point, you want the machine to be running, and the machine can run for a while before it decays.

Keith, having seen many different scale ups in different situations, if you were to advise Mike proactively on when culture starts to break and how, what would you say are the most prescient points for you?

You know, truthfully, the biggest mistake is usually hiring the wrong person. Everybody you hire, if you don’t correct that person who’s off on your culture and your values, will hire, like, 10 more people like that, and all of a sudden, you’ve got a real problem. Mike is truthfully maybe the best I’ve ever worked with. I think maybe the yeah. Almost sure the best of this trait is if he realizes the person slightly off, he’s gonna fix that person right away.

What does what does fix that person mean?

First, basically, give him strong feedback on why you’re off, what’s not acceptable, here’s how you have to correct it, and if not, you know, edit the team appropriately. Almost every other CEO I know, including ones who’ve been incredibly successful, probably procrastinates on that conversation a little too long.

I do look for something called a force multiplier at the company, and those are the people that I just wanna promote, give them more equity, give them more responsibility. And the reason for that is because at scale, you’re building an engine. And I want to basically when I do find somebody that is not only thinking about, okay. This is my job. How are they actually amplifying the cultural values that are important for success at our company? I do tell my entire management team that it’s not your job is not about you. It’s actually about the effect that you also have on other people. So if you think about any, like, micro behavior, like, for example, let’s say you’re late to a meeting. If one person is late to a meeting, like, three minutes late, that may not be that big of a deal if it’s just one on one. But now you actually have a leader that’s late three minutes to a meeting. Everyone now thinks it’s appropriate to do that. Now everything is slower by three minutes multiplied by the number of people that were in that meeting. If it’s if it’s an all hands, even worse. The way that I scale the culture is I culture, like, basically, being a force multiplier is actually a component in all the promotions, performance reviews. How are you actually embodying the behaviors that we know that at scale, let’s say, it’s 500 people, what you’re doing actually would be what we wanna see across 500 people?

Harry, if you read high output management, you know, by Andy Grove written in 1983, it’s basically the same philosophy. Mike’s translated it to Traba, which is basically everything’s about what is a high leverage activity. High leverage activities can be have upside and they can have downside, and you need to stop the downside ones, like the three minutes late to the meeting because it multiplies, and then you need to amplify the positive ones. You wanna filter people and your own calendar by whether something is a high leverage activity or not.

Mike, do you celebrate wins?

We do celebrate wins. When we hit a very, like, big milestone, I had given an all hands to the company, and I was like, here’s what we have to be be proud of. Like, this is our unit economics. This is our growth